Peaceful Profits Podcast Ep. 77 - Why You Should Build Your Business BACKWARD
Synopsis:
In this episode of the Peaceful Profits Podcast, Chanelle sits down with Jessica Berlin, Head of Program Fulfillment at Peaceful Profits, to unpack what truly makes an online course succeed. Jessica shares her journey from client to coaching lead and offers a masterclass on how to design, fill, and deliver a high-ticket program that actually creates results.
You’ll learn why you should build your business “backward” by starting with fulfillment—not sales—and how clarity on audience and transformation is more important than perfect tech. Jessica walks through Peaceful Profits’ proven State A to State B method and explains how to turn an idea into a program that gets love letters from clients. She also shares hard-won insights on onboarding, implementation, overcoming client roadblocks, and celebrating wins to drive success.
If you’re building or improving your coaching program or course, this episode is a must-listen.
Transcript:
Peaceful Profits Review: Why You Should Build Your Business BACKWARD
[00:00:00] Chanelle: Hello, Peaceful Profits nation. Welcome to the Peaceful Profits podcast. I'm your host, Chanelle Nielson. And today I am joined by Jessica Berlin, Jessica. So glad to have you.
[00:00:09] Jessica: Thank you so much. It's great to be here.
[00:00:10] Chanelle: Yeah. Jessica is the head of program fulfillment here at Peaceful Profits, which means on a practical level, she is our coaching lead.
[00:00:18] Chanelle: She's helping us with all things, coaching. And she's going to talk to us And and all things fulfillment. So we are super glad to have you here today to talk a little bit about creating, developing, filling, [00:00:30] delivering online courses and programs. So all things to do with fulfillment, but before we get into that, we'd love to hear just a little bit more about you and how you came to this role and how you came to Peaceful Profits in the first place.
[00:00:43] Jessica: Yes. Thank you again for having me. This is fun to be on this side of the podcast interview. I have been on the other side as well. But yeah, so I joined the team while I joined, I actually, I came to Mike Shreeve As a client initially back in 2017. So it's been [00:01:00] many years now.
[00:01:00] Jessica: And then my role has evolved and changed over the years that I have been here. But in 2018, I initially became what was called a student coach and which meant that I was just coaching in our Peaceful Profits. Facebook group. Actually, it wasn't even Peaceful Profits at the time. It was the previous iteration of this program.
[00:01:20] Jessica: And so I was doing well in my own freelancing kind of business. And Mike recognized that and asked me to coach our [00:01:30] other coach, the clients who were in the program. And so I started in that way. But I have evolved over time. I was an acceleration coach here, coaching our clients one on one here in the Peaceful Profits program.
[00:01:43] Jessica: For a while I was also working on content and like managing the blog writing team when we were doing a lot of blog posts and things like that. But really have just been very involved in the evolution of the Peaceful Profits program, especially as Mike. Developed it [00:02:00] further from the, like I said, the previous iteration of the program that I was in previously and into the program as it is now.
[00:02:06] Jessica: We're still developing it, we're still updating it. I wanna get into some of that as well. Like the program that, your online program, your course, your offering is always changing and has, and we still are currently. Even to this day, years later, still changing the program and making it better.
[00:02:25] Jessica: But really my role here is, yeah, just overseeing our coaching team now [00:02:30] and making sure that our clients are having success and trying to ensure that success for our clients as they are going through this program, getting the support they need and making the program the best that it can be to get our clients the results that we are promising them.
[00:02:46] Chanelle: That's awesome. I think that speaks to, why you have such a deep understanding of the program. You've been here for a long time in different roles and in different capacities to really understand the program and [00:03:00] what we're doing here. So let's go ahead and jump into our topic for today.
[00:03:05] Chanelle: So let's start with some of the elements we'd love to hear from you. What are some of the elements that make an online program successful?
[00:03:14] Jessica: Yeah. Just for kind of background on this question, when I was thinking about it in the Peaceful Profits world and in, in the programs we teach creating your high ticket offer, your premium program first.
[00:03:26] Jessica: And so when I'm thinking about an online program, I'm, [00:03:30] Not initially thinking of just like a 27 kind of online course that you might buy. We, we teach that also, but it's a later part of the program. And I think that thinking through the high ticket offer or that premium offering first is critical for clients who are coming into this program, which is why it's like the beginning piece of Peaceful Profits and the, the first thing that you focus on here.
[00:03:53] Jessica: So I. Just for reference point, I want to just start that started with that. High ticket [00:04:00] offer is the foundation of your business. It's how you can support your business and yourself mostly because it's a high price point and you don't have to have as many clients coming in. But you can also provide a really greater level of support to those clients.
[00:04:14] Jessica: Because it's not just like a DIY, online course, a thing. So the high ticket offers that we teach here in Peaceful Profits, they often range from like the 3000 to 10, 000 kind of price point. A lot of them could be in like the 5k kind of price point. Starting out I also think, [00:04:30] when we started talking about this topic and online programs, because of course, many of the people that we have here in Peaceful Profits are creating something online, mostly because it can be scalable like you can sell to a much larger audience if you're selling to online versus something that's in person, or, it.
[00:04:48] Jessica: That's storefront kind of a thing, right? Like you, you you can obviously reach a larger audience, but I think when people think about online programs, they get stuck in this, the tech and [00:05:00] what is the software that I want to be doing or the, the, those kinds of things. I just wanna say that I don't think any of those things are important.
[00:05:08] Jessica: none of those are, that, those are the things that are not important, I think, in my opinion. And in, what I've seen here in our clients as well, like the particular software or platform or how you're recording, or whether you're using Zoom or Loom or what are some other fancy, something to record your videos if it's, if you're on camera, if you're not on camera, if it's.[00:05:30]
[00:05:30] Jessica: It's just written if it's just like a podcast kind of audio recording, there's so many different things and don't focus there is mostly what I want to say. First of all I believe that the most important elements to make a program successful. And I also think that what Mike teaches in our program is.
[00:05:48] Jessica: There's two things. Number one is who your offer is for your audience and getting super clear on that and who it is you're trying to help and then the transformation that you are [00:06:00] creating for them. So those are the two things that we spend a lot of time in again, in the beginning of our, in the Peaceful Profits program in helping our clients, work through that.
[00:06:11] Jessica: Who are you helping and how are you helping them and making sure that it's a transformation. It's not just information that you're providing to them like you might be doing and more of a DIY, lower cost lower ticket kind of online course but in a high ticket. Offering like what we teach here in [00:06:30] Peaceful Profits.
[00:06:30] Jessica: We want to really think about that audience and then that transformation that you're creating for your client.
[00:06:37] Chanelle: Yeah. Okay. I think that's awesome. And I think that I would love to hear an example of. What that looks like, specifically who your offer is for I think that's a place where people get hung up because they want to serve everyone, and so what, talk to me a little bit about this idea of how [00:07:00] deciding and knowing who your offer is for, give us the bridge or the link to how that then makes your program successful.
[00:07:08] Jessica: Yeah. I think number one you have to go out and research online, or, if you have any kind of experience with this, many of our clients have some kind of experience. They maybe have had, done something in this field or this realm whatever it is that they want to help people with in the past.
[00:07:26] Jessica: Or maybe you've done it yourself. Like you've had some transformation in your own [00:07:30] life. So many clients are coming in because Yeah. Yeah. They've, they have gone through the weight loss piece themselves, or they've gone through the parenting, kind of transformation themselves or whatever, right?
[00:07:40] Jessica: Like they, they've experienced it themselves and then they have helped other clients or helped other people, not even necessarily clients, but just helped other people in those ways as well. Getting clear on who your audience is such a, I don't know, it's such it's so important. And I think getting [00:08:00] super into the mind of that person and, Mike has the state A to state B exercise that's in the beginning of the program and he calls it a game, and you, if you can really be.
[00:08:11] Jessica: Empathetic to the person that you are helping, especially in that state a that before state what are they like before they before you have helped them before they've gone through the transformation is going to so much more clearly. Number one, attract the right [00:08:30] kind of people into your world because they will see themselves, they will hear their words in like your marketing copy and the way that you're talking to them.
[00:08:39] Jessica: But also, You will be able to help them because you are helping that specific kind of person and you have created a plan for how to help that person. So going through that state A to state B transformation. And so working through that and getting really into the mind of your client, I also like to recommend that [00:09:00] clients, um, if you have done this kind of work at all before that you think about the client's.
[00:09:07] Jessica: Who you have absolutely loved working with in the past, who have you loved, who has been like, who has written you love letters, I've had clients in the past who have written me emails and they're just like, Oh my gosh, this is the most amazing, fabulous thing that I have ever experienced in my whole life.
[00:09:20] Jessica: Or, whatever I've done for them and. They, I call them love letters because it's like, you're getting a love letter from your client. So who are those people and what it like [00:09:30] describe them, but then also think about the kind of people that you have maybe not enjoyed working with and any, maybe if you haven't worked with people before, maybe it's more whatever friends or family members or people that you even just talk to about this topic, but before who are the people that, are like chomping at the bit to hear from you and get more from you versus the kind of people that are like, I don't know not so nice to be talking with or working with or things like that and describing that getting into their mind is going to help you, like I said, attract the right [00:10:00] audience, but also really be able to help them further because you know who it is that you are looking for, right?
[00:10:05] Chanelle: Yeah. Okay. That's some good insight. So once you've figured out then who that person is, the transformation you want to help them with, how do you go from that idea to an actual program?
[00:10:19] Jessica: Yeah. So we have the state aid. We have the state B for that person, right? And you've really described that client.
[00:10:28] Jessica: And then there's an [00:10:30] arch in this diagram that Mike has in our state A to state B, the transformation pathway is what he calls it. And so that arch is really, that is your program, right? But what you have to do. With your program is you have to figure out the steps along the way that along that arch or along that pathway that are going to create that transformation for that client.
[00:10:53] Jessica: So again, if you've done it yourself, if you've done it with people in the past, if you are if this is the very [00:11:00] first time that you're ever doing it, then maybe you have to brainstorm and think about it, or you have to go through the process yourself, or, get somebody to test it out with you along the way.
[00:11:07] Jessica: But really outlining that pathway and that, that guidance at a high level first, right? Like the big overall themes or the steps, like what is the step one that somebody needs to take? And then step two and then step three, like what, or maybe you need to work backwards, right? And be like, okay one step before this ultimate state B is going to be like this.
[00:11:27] Jessica: And, but in order to get to that, like they need to get to this point [00:11:30] and you work yourself backwards in an overall Overall themes or steps that someone needs to take and then so like maybe those are like your modules right like each of those like four or five steps, whatever those are your modules for your program and then break those down even further, like what do they have to get to that and that becomes your lessons for your program, You also have to think about the best way for someone to get to each of those steps, like not just to learn it, but to [00:12:00] actually implement it, especially if you're thinking like in a high ticket program.
[00:12:03] Jessica: So I don't know, is it a video or is it like a worksheet or something that they have to work through and journal and brainstorm themselves? Or is it a audio recording or journal exercise or something like that? Thinking through, it doesn't necessarily have to be a video course or, there's lots of different things.
[00:12:19] Jessica: Like what is the best way for someone in your experience as you, as the expert in this field to learn that and to do that and to implement that. So breaking that [00:12:30] down, I outlining it like that and, but then ultimately. It becomes a program when you start taking it out to the market and you test it out with real live people.
[00:12:39] Jessica: Even if it's, even if it's rough, even if it's beta, even if it's just like a couple of videos or something like that in a worksheet for now, like taking it out and letting people look at it and see it and give you feedback along the way. And then adjusting and being open to feedback and, knowing that it's always a work in progress.
[00:12:57] Chanelle: Yeah. And that's so comforting. I [00:13:00] think to know because people. Think to your point earlier of Oh, I must have the perfect tech. And they think I need the perfect tech and the perfect videos and the perfect everything. And I love what you just said, that it's a work in progress, that you're going to put it out there.
[00:13:14] Chanelle: You're going to see, Oh, where are my clients still needing more help? And then you're going to add to the program. And I think that's one of the things that makes Peaceful Profits so powerful is it's not a static program. It's not okay, hope you got what you needed from that. It's [00:13:30] oh, if we see that clients are struggling in an area, then something is added to the program or something is simplified.
[00:13:37] Chanelle: It's a continually growing program. And that's so amazing. I think that's something that people can really model to know that, don't just build it and walk away from it, continue to grow it. Yeah,
[00:13:50] Jessica: absolutely. I'm like literally in the process of recording videos. In the last couple of days that are going to be put it into the Peaceful Profits program.
[00:13:57] Jessica: And we have other experts as well. Mike has [00:14:00] really wanted us as we've been growing as a company and having more and more experts and other people on the team. It's not just from Mike and he's not the only expert in this. In this company anymore, and he really wants and is empowering the rest of the team to, figure out what is, what are the things that clients need?
[00:14:19] Jessica: And we added an entire Facebook organic section into stage two into our validation method last, I guess it was about a year ago. Because. Not for Mike. And it was, from our outside expert [00:14:30] because we needed another way for clients to validate their offer. And we wanted to teach the Facebook organic method instead.
[00:14:36] Jessica: And there's more like that coming to there's a lot, there's lots in the work. So yeah, it's definitely always a work in progress and should be, I don't know. I. I think taking it out to the market is the ultimate bearer of how an offer is going to do. You have to allow people in and not just keep it all in your head or keep it all on paper or, just whiteboard it out and keep it on that whiteboard forever.
[00:14:59] Jessica: Like you've got [00:15:00] to start talking to people about it, number one, and then also start getting, letting people see what you're doing and giving you feedback along the way, because that's the only way that it's going to really. become the program that you really want it to be is by allowing the clients in there too.
[00:15:15] Chanelle: Yeah. Okay. So good. Now, I know that everyone wants to have a really, a program to your earlier point that they get love letters about that kind of program, not a program that's just like meh, just okay. So what would you say is [00:15:30] the difference between the two, between a stellar love letter worthy program and a program that's just okay.
[00:15:37] Jessica: Back to the earlier point, I think when you're clear on your audience and you're very clear on that specific transformation that you are creating for that person, then that is when it's amazing. Like you, and you actually are creating that transformation. It's not just a pile of information, right?
[00:15:55] Jessica: It's not just like video after video. That's just A whole bunch, like all of your [00:16:00] entire knowledge, but it's thinking about the transformation and how that transformation happens for that client and helping them create that, right? I don't know if you're packing it all in and you're just trying to put all of the information that you ever knew about this topic into something that's not going to actually help them, but thinking through what are the steps what does somebody have to do first?
[00:16:23] Jessica: And to be able To take that step and take that action, right? Then getting them to the [00:16:30] next step, right? And yes you are the expert and you have all of this information, but they don't necessarily need to have all of that information in order to get that transformation. So really focusing on that.
[00:16:42] Jessica: Transformation. What are you helping them actually out accomplished? What is the outcome of that program? And focusing that in the step by step kind of process. And also if you're packing it all in, in trying to be everything for everyone, and then it's, like not being clear on who your audience is going to really be, it's going to [00:17:00] be a struggle because then you're, I don't know, it's just okay for everyone, but not great for that one specific person that you're trying to help.
[00:17:07] Jessica: Yeah, I, and it takes. Tweaking sometimes there's another podcast episode that I always like to refer people to that the interview with that Zach did with Roz, who was one of our, one of our Peaceful Profits clients. And she did this amazing thing, like in a month's time, which I remember specifically because I was coaching her and she it was like a, it was like over [00:17:30] The month of December and December to January kind of timeframe.
[00:17:33] Jessica: So I remember specifically, cause I was like over Christmas and she had her offer idea. She had her audience, but she like four times in a month's time, she changed it because she talked to people about her offer. So she had this initial idea of who she wanted to help and how she wanted to help them. She went out and started talking to a few people, had some conversations, and then she came back and she's no it's not that it's.
[00:17:54] Jessica: This instead. And then she did it like four times back and forth in a month's time. And, you [00:18:00] have to be able to work through that, right? Like it's that tweaking. And but yeah, it really starts with that audience and that transformation and getting that right. And being able to talk to people and know that this is the right thing for me and for my audience and what I want to be doing, helping people with as well.
[00:18:17] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:18:18] Chanelle: Okay. So once people then have that created, they have done, as you've explained so well, and they've stepped it out step by step, here is what people need to do to [00:18:30] get their transformation in this program, then they wanna get it filled. . So let's talk a little bit about that process and where do people start as far as filling these programs they've created?
[00:18:43] Jessica: Yeah, I like to say you go where your audience is already hanging out. So wherever your people already are, then that's where you should go. In a previous life, I worked for a community relations firm [00:19:00] and we We helped like public agencies with their construction projects and they were communicating about the construction projects.
[00:19:06] Jessica: And so one of the construction projects was for a reservoir, a lake, and they were going to be shutting it down because of construction. And so me and my team had to Go out to the lake at like 4 or 5am on a Saturday in order to be able to go talk to the audience that we needed to talk to, the boaters, to tell them that this lake was going to be shut down and because it was going to [00:19:30] be for quite some time while they were doing this project.
[00:19:32] Jessica: So go to where your audience is, even if it means going and Hanging out at the lake at 4am on a Saturday. Of course in this world, often that's online, right? So if you have a professional audience, then maybe it's LinkedIn. If you're looking for moms or something like that, maybe there's some, mom, Facebook groups.
[00:19:50] Jessica: We of course have those kinds of resources for finding your people in in the Peaceful Profits course, but then also, thinking about who you've worked [00:20:00] with before, you if you are, have been doing this research and having conversations with potential, with, people who are in your audience, maybe it's going back to those people and talking to them again and be like, okay I've got, I've now, thank you so much for your feedback.
[00:20:13] Jessica: And now I've got this offer. I want to help you. If it is something that you might be interested in even at a beta kind of price, or maybe there's people that you've worked with in the past or people, in your network that either maybe they are interested, but maybe they know someone else [00:20:30] who might be interested.
[00:20:30] Jessica: So that it's that in the beginning, right? It's that kind of let's just go where the people already are, or, who's already influencing your audience? What other podcasts are out there, there's another podcast episode that you did not too long ago with Brenda and she was talking about how her, she was going and helping people in Facebook groups.
[00:20:51] Jessica: And then she got noticed by the leaders of those Facebook groups who were doctors who have a podcast and where they were very interested in her [00:21:00] offer. And so they took her on as. As a, and she ended up being on their podcast and she's gotten a whole bunch of clients that way through, through that.
[00:21:07] Jessica: So it's you never quite know exactly where they're going to come from, but if you go and help the people that you are looking for and you go to where they are already hanging out, that's. That's the main place I think that you
[00:21:18] Chanelle: start. I think that's really important to just put yourself in the right environment to be there and be, of help, like you mentioned with [00:21:30] Brenda, so that you are, you're providing value and then things will come of that.
[00:21:35] Chanelle: And that's why, it's called organic for a reason. It happens very organically. Yeah. Sometimes not always in the way that you expect, but if you're in the right place, having those conversations, then things will begin to happen. So finally we come to fulfillment and after someone has, they've planned, they've put this together, they're ready to start now it's time to deliver.
[00:21:57] Chanelle: So what can you teach us about [00:22:00] successful delivery of an online program?
[00:22:03] Jessica: Yeah, so again, I'm not going to talk about the tech because there's so many things that you there's so many different ways that you could deliver your program. And in the beginning, I think you should be keep it super simple, make it, even if it's just like unlisted YouTube videos.
[00:22:21] Jessica: That are in a Google doc that you, that's how you give it, give your program to your first, couple of customers, keep it simple. It doesn't have to be [00:22:30] fancy graphics in, online course platform or anything like that. There's so many different platforms out there. It really depends on what you need, what your budget is, what your, tech savviness is there's so many ways that, that, so many different options you could do, but as far as actually.
[00:22:46] Jessica: Delivering something like this, then number one, have a clear, a really clear onboarding process, think through that before you even start selling it, that transition from sale sales to fulfillment is a really [00:23:00] important piece and that onboarding process is really important. What is your welcome email going to say, or how are you going to give them access to.
[00:23:08] Jessica: Whatever part of the program you have already created how do they access coaching? If there's coaching involved or, making sure that's super clear and outlined from the beginning, but even before you even start selling it don't overwhelm them with too much all at once, like giving small steps along the way.
[00:23:25] Jessica: Thinking about how your audience Wants to consume information. So like I [00:23:30] give the example of like busy moms, like maybe they don't want, hour long videos that they have to sit and watch in front of their computer. Cause they're never going to be able to do that. Like maybe we have someone who's doing a parenting offer and they're doing more just like audio.
[00:23:43] Jessica: It's almost like a podcast. They're calling it like a private podcast, and so they're just like a mom could listen to it, in the. Whatever school pickup line right like listening to it like that as opposed to long videos or whatever. I'm not just information, but implementation [00:24:00] to thinking through that as well.
[00:24:01] Jessica: It's not just information, but you are helping them implement it or building in some kind of accountability along the way.
[00:24:08] Jessica: There's so many things, but I have three more thinking through the roadblocks that a client is going to hit along the way, building in methods in your program to help them overcome those, as part of your program, because there will be times when, people are going to struggle and things and trying to think through those along the way, or at least, be able to help them overcome that along the [00:24:30] way.
[00:24:30] Jessica: Having a way to celebrate wins. Along the way and helping your clients acknowledge and celebrate those wins too. And then also just being open to feedback and adjustment along the way and building in ways for your clients to tell you what else they need from you so that you are able to adjust those along the way.
[00:24:47] Jessica: And we can dig into all of those. Maybe we will in another episode later, but that's my list.
[00:24:53] Chanelle: That's exactly what I was going to say. I now have an outline for our next podcast episode, because I think there are so many [00:25:00] things that we could talk about here that will really help people to fulfill in a way that.
[00:25:06] Chanelle: Provides the highest value for their clients. So I think that was a great a great way to end a great overview of what people can do as far as fulfilling and we'll be chatting again for sure. We'll need to go a little deeper because I think there's a lot there to unpack. So Jessica, I think this has been great.
[00:25:25] Chanelle: You've taught us a lot of things. I know this is something that is on a lot of people's [00:25:30] minds. So thank you for sharing your wisdom and for being here today. You're welcome. Thanks so much. Yeah. And everyone who is listening, thanks for listening. And you can learn more and talk to our team by going to peacefulprofits.com/call. This will get you all the information about how to work with us. And I'll tell you, there's so much information you're already learning here from the podcast, but there is so much more on the inside. So we would love to see you there. Thanks again, Jessica. Thanks everyone for being here and we'll see you [00:26:00] next time.
